339 Motor Vehicles Bill SHRI A, K, PANJA : Sir, I introduce the Bill. pn neo Statement re : Prevention of Hiicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Ordinances (English| THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRI A. K, PUJA): I beg to lay on the Table an explanatory statement (Hindi and English versions) giving reasons fcr immediate legislation by the Prevention of 1111011 Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Subs- tances Ordinance, 1988. 13.26 hrs. MOTOR VEHICLES BILL—Coentd. {English} MR. CHAIRMAN: The Motion for consideration of the Bill has already been moved. Hon. Members who wish to move their amendments may please do so. SHRI ८, MADHAY REDDI (Adilabad): Sir, I beg to move : That the Bill to consolidate and amend the law relating to motor vehicles be referred to a Joint Committee of the House consisting of 13 members, 10 from this House, namely - (1) Shri Somnath Chatterjee (2) Prof. Madhu Dandavate (3) Sbri Dinesh Goswami (4) Shri Indrajit Gupta (5) Smt. Geeta Mukherjee (6) Shri Rajesh Pilot (7) Shri Balwant Singh Ramoowalia - (8) Shri छ. Ayyapu Reddy (9) Shri K. Ramachandra Reddy (10) Shri Amar Roypradhan and 5 from Rajya Sabha; AUGUST 19, 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 340 that in order to constitute a sitting of the Joint Committee the quorum shall be on one-third of the total number of Members of the Joint Committee : that the Committee shall make a report to this House by the first day of the last week of the next session; that in other respects the Rules of Procedure of this House relating to Parliamentary Committe shall apply with such variations and modifications as the Speaker may make; and that this House do recommend to Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha do join the said Joint Committee and communicate to this House the names of 5 members to be appointed by Rajya Sabha to the Joint Committee. (1) PROF, SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Sir, I beg to move: That the Bill to consolidate and amend the law relating to motor vehicles be referred to a Joint Committee of the Houses consisting of 15 members, 10 from this House, namely - (1) Shri G, M. Banatwalla (2) Shri Somnath Chatterjee (3) ShtiSharad Dighe (4) Shri V. ”. Gadgil (5) Shri Indrajit Gupta (6) Shri Haroobhai Mehta (7) Shri Rajesh Pilot (8) Shri Somnath Rath (9) Shri Syed Shahabuddin (10) Shri ह. P. Unnikrishnan and 5 from Rajya Sabha; that in order to constitute a sitting of the Joint Committee the quorum shall be one- third of the total number of members of the Joint Committee; that the Committee shall make a report to this House by the last day of the Budget session, 1989; that in other respects the Rules of Procedure Of this House relating to Parliamentary - - Motor Vehicles Bill Committees shall apply with such variation and modifications as the Speaker may make; and that this House do recommend to Rojya Sabha that Rajya Sabha do join the said Joint Committee and communicate to this House the names of 5 members to be appoin- ted by Rajya Sabha to the Joint Com- mittee. (103) SHRI C. MADHAV REDDI: The Motor Vehicles Bill at least has come today for consideration. The Bill was introduced last year as Motor Vehicles Bill 1987. At that time a number of amendments had been moved by the Hon. Minister himself and also by a number of Hon. Members. I am happy that the Hon. Minister has considered many of those amendments. Apart from the Government amendments, some of the amendments moved by the Hon. Members have also been accepted and incorporated in this Bill—Motor Vehicles Bill 1988. So far 80 good. I must congratulate the Minister for Sterring clear and ultimately for being successful in bringing this Bill Because such a Bill was prepared in 1979; but it never saw the light of the day. The necessity for such a consolidated Bill was felt for a very long time. Several Committees have gone into this question of consolidating the law relating to the Motor Vehicles, The Police Commission, the National Transport Policy Committee and several other institutions had presented their Reports. They were all before the Government and the Government had to set up as it was told a working group which went into this question and the Report of the Working Group was presented as long ago as 1980. Going through some of ths chapters of the Working Group Report relating to the Motor Vehicles, I found certain discrepencies, Some very useful suggestions made by the National Transport Policy Committee and also by the Working Group could not be iacorporated for psrhaps practical reasons, When the matter was discussed 10 the meet- ing of the Transport Ministers of all the States in 1986, perhaps some States objec- ted, and perhaps the Government felt that the recommendations proposed by the Work- SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SARA) Motor Vehicles Bill 44 ing Group are not suitable. Whatever may be the reasons, now the Bill is before us running into about 217 clauses. Going through this Bill, through many of the provisions and sections are only repetitions or only reproductions of the sections which are contained in the 1939 Bill, yet there are certain very important chapters dealing with 80 many important questions which need to be thoroughly gone into, scrutinised and then an expert opinion taken before this Bill ia enacted. It is for this purpose that I gaye notice that this may be referred to the joint select committee. If this had been done earlier in 1987 itself -when the Bill was introduced then by this time we would have got the report of the joint committee and that would have made proper justice to the various provisions of the Bill. Since the Bill is before the House है would like to draw the attention of the House to some of the important aspects or some of the lapses which I feel should be rectified even at this stage. Going by the gesture of the Hon. Minister in accepting some of the amendments of the Hon. Mem- bers earlier 1 would request him to consider these suggestions in the proper perspective and even now to introduce some of the amendments based on our suggestions and accept them. I hope he will have no objec- tion to doing so afterall it is a non-constro- versial Bill, Sir, first I come to the question of nationalisation which is very importaot and with which all the State govérnments are concerned because the States are going on pationalising routes. They have problems every day dealing with this problem of nationalisation because people are going to courts and gettiog stays. At some places the decisions are being delayed. The most important aspect in this is that as against the earlier Act the authority to prepare the scheme for nationalisation and the authority to call for clearance and publishing the scheme and sit on judgement on this parti- cular scheme is only one. Io the earlier Act the authorities were different. Earlier the transport undertakings were preparing the scheme for nationalisation because it is they who know better what routes are to be nationalised whether they have the infra- structure or ot because it is ultimately they 543 Motor Vehicles Bill (Shri ८ Madhav Reddy] who have to run it. It is they who have to prepare the scheme for taking over certain routes, Then it is for the Government to sit in judgement over the state transport under- * takings as to whether it is right to taking over the route or not. Based on the objec- tions received from the various parties and individuals the State Governments can take a decision like a judge. It is like quasi-judi- cial proceedings. Thcy have to ask for clearance of objections and hearing has to be given, Final judgement has to be given by the Government. This is being denied in this Bill, In this Bill what we are doing in Chapter 6 is that the State Government itself is coming to the conclusion that this is the route which has to be nationalised. The State Govern- ment itself is publishing the scheme and then inviting objections and when the objections are received the State Government is sitting jn judgement on these objections and finally taking a decision whether that particular route, is to be nationalised or not. This, I think is not fair, The existing provision is very good because a number of cases have come and in the last ten years of its opera- tion several people ave gone to the courts and obtained judgements. Full case law is before us. The things are already settled and now we are disturbing the apple-cart. What we are doing in this is, once this is done, then again a case will go to the court and again the courts have to give their judge.nent. Not ooly this is against the natural justice, but also this is likely to create problems for the State Governments to nationalise a particular route The parties are bound to go to court and find out some loopholes. Today, they can’t because the courts have settled. The Supreme Court has settled. The case laws are before us. The cases are being decided in the light of not only the laws but also the case laws existing today. This aspect has to be se::ously consi- dered, I am sure, many State Governments have objected to this, Ido not know for what reason this has been clubbed. This may kindly be considered. The second aspect which I would like to come to is the case of compensat'on to he paid to the victims. Iam happy that the Government has accepted thse Supreme Court’s judgement earlier that the compen- sation - «to «be enhanced. Now, the AUGUST 19, 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 344 compensation is about Rs. 25,000 in the case of death and Rs. 12,000 in the case of permanent disablement. The disablement has been defined in the Act. But I do not agree with the definition of disablement. Suppose if a limb is amputated, if an eye goes, if the injury is such that one of the limbs is lost, then that becomes a permanent disablement. But what happens to the person whose brain is injuted in the sense% that be has been injured in such a way that it cannot be found out. He has not lost any limb. In all the accident cases, it has been seen that it is the head injury which is most dangerous. Then, the man is actually alive. He is very well but he is useless. His mind is affected. In such cases, what are you going to do 2 He won’t get any compensa- tion unless it is proved on the principle of the default. That is very difficult. You have yourself said in the Bill that the principle of default is very difficult to prove in the court. When a principle of default is proved, certainly he will get more. When he gets more, that should be an additionality and not to be adjusted against the compensation already paid. That may kindly be noted. Under this particular clause, subsequently on the principle of defau!t if it is proved in the court that the driver was wrong, he was drunk or some- thing was wrong with the vehicle or he was going on the wrong Side, then he gets com- pensation award from the court. [pn that case, suppose he gets Rs. 30,000 and earlier you paid him Rs, 20,000, then, you are going to pay him only Rs. 10,000. What I want to say is that earlier when a payment has been made for an accident in which death occurred without any regard to the principle of default, this payment is being mide. AmIcorrect or not? Kindly tell m2. THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF SURFACE TRANSPORT (SHRI RAJESH PILOT): Yes, you are right. SHRI ८. MADHAV REDDI: The point is even without proving in the court that there was a default on the part of the driver or the owner, the compensation is being paid. That is a very good principle. We appreciate that because it is very difficult to prove that the driver was wrong. Now, 345 Motor Vehicles Bill whatever compensation is being paid, it will be adjusted against the future compensation whenever that compensation is awarded by the court after the default is proved. What I mean to say is that there should be an additionality. What is wrong with it? In many countries, this actually is being practis- ed. In USA, this is the practice. Anyway, that is for consideration. But whatever has been done is a step in the right direction. Further improvement is possible. That is what I wanted to say. Coming to another question of the test- ing facilities, we all know that many vehicles which are condemned, polluting the atmos- phere are on the road. All types of vehicles are on the road. Sometimes. such buses of the State Road Transport Corporation are also on the road because of various reasons. I do not want to go into those reasons. But what we are doing is we are opening the floodgates by allowing private testing insti- tutions to test these vehicles, whether they are roadworthy or notin addition to the existing facilities that the State Governments or the Centra] Government are having for testing, You are doing this for the reason that you do not have adequate facilities. What you are doing is that the private garages are going to be permitted to test the vehicles and give a certificate. That means that there is lot of scope for malpractices, Any vehicle will be passed and a certificate given by the private testing institutions. What arrangement is there to see that it is cheked 7 How can we do that ? It would be easy for anybody to approach a private garage and get a certificate. Of course, he will be an authorised for that purpose. That does not help us. My point is that the States will also be losing some revenue because for test- ing we charge certain fees and । think, nobody is going to come to Government testing institutions. I am sure that. This will actually aggravate the position and more and more condemned vehicles will be on the road polluting the atmosphere. This may kindly be looked into. It is actually the regional or the State Transport Authorities which are executing the Act at the State level. After all, this is an Act which is to be executed by the State Governments and the Central Government has nothing to do with it. You are passing ao Act, the implementation is in their hands. SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SAKA) Motor Vehicles Bill - Now, it is found that many of these State Road Transport authorities bave a number of people on the Committee. There are States, where I was told there are 12 persons, 15 persons on the authority and whenever a meeting is held, quorum is never achieved and decisions are never taken and no judicious decisions is posssble, parti- cularly because a lot of condemned politi- cians are there. They come and sit in the Committee. The Government realised this and today we have fixed the maximum number to be on these Committees. Very good, but in the earlier Act, we had the minimum number. What we wanted was that there should be a minimum as well as maximum. What you are doing today is that you have done away with the minimum, you tave accepted the maximum. [Translation] Earlicr, there was a practice which you abandened and started a new one. You have accepted the maximum. {English} The number for the State Transport Authority is four excluding the Chairman and minimum is two excluding the Chairman in the case of Regional Transport Authority. But what is the mioimum. Minimum can be even one. क One Chairman and one member. Will they decide anything ? What can they do? Is it possible? Again, there is a lacuna. What you have to do is that you must have a maximum strength as also minimum strength prescribed otherwise there is a possibility that it will be a one-man show. Only the Chairman will be sitting and decid- ing the things. With regard to certain Road Transport Corporations, it was found that these trans- port authorities, State and Regional Trans- port Authorities, were exercising control over these State Transport Corporations also so much so that without any regard for certain problems, they were cancelling the permits etc, These complaints are there. Every day State Government receives such complaints 347.0 Motor Vehicles Bill ' {Shri C. Madhav Reddi} because the State Transport Organisations are run by the Government. And then they have the difficulties, Now, these difficulties had been examined by the National Trans- port Policy Committee and the Committee gave a very sound recommendation that in such cases you can delegate certain powers to the Chairman of the State Transport Undertaking. Afterall why cannot you do that? Why should the Regional Authorities or the State Transport Authority exercise those powers? Why not you give certain powers to the Chairman of these under- takings. Anyway, I could not find any clause in which it has been done. Obviously it has been missed. That should be done so that there may not be any unnecessary harass- ment to the State Public Sector Under- taking. Coming to the question of special pro- visions and special Acts passed by the State Legislatures, I would like to say that while there was a Central Act in existence, certain States had been permitted with the per- mision of the Central Government, to take certain special provisions and pass certain special legislation for the implementation of this Act in their States in respect of certain matters because certain special circumstances may obtain in a particular State. It should be possible for every State to make certain provisions at the State level. Now, uader Clause 217 of the Repealing Act, we are repealing all those Acts and all those provisions. After this Bill is passed all those Acts or special provisions made by special legislation in various States for the implementation of this Act are going to be repealed. Now, I would like to ask, before doing this, have you discussed and have you consulted the State Governments, You have been consulting the State Governments very often 1 know. But the effect of passing this Act is that all the special Acts, or special provisions—they are not exhaustive Acts, they are only related to certain provisions in respect of certain States—will stand repealed. Now, what would be the effect of this 2? Again they have to pass certain Acts and certain provisions have to be made, You have validated the action taken before the passing of the Act but in future for imple- menting this Act they will find difficulty and again every State has to go the legislature AUGUST 19, 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 348 and pass certain amending provisions and come to you for approval, as far as this Act is concerned. This has to be looked into because it is likely to create problems for the State in implementing the Act. Lastly, 1 will come to the question of National permits, and the various types of permits which are being issued for the goods carriages, etc. Sir, we have about 5 catego-' ries of permits. There is a District Permit, Intrastate Permit, Interstate Permit based on Certain agreement and again there isa Zonal Permit and a National Permit. Why do you have these categories ? Where is the need for these permits 2 You could have only a State Permit. Today transportation has increased to such an extent that there is no truck which can be called a district truck’ .which means that its area of operation is confined to just within the district. At some poiat of distance it has to cross and go to another district. Therefore, there is no mean- ing in baving this district permit. There should be only be two permits—national permit and state permit. This permit system should be further simplified by saying that there should be only two categories of permits, namely State Permits and National Permits. Whether the area of operation is two States or five States or ten States, it should be covered under the national permit. Once it is beyond one State, it has to be a national permit. Let there be no inter-state permit because inter- State permit means entering 1010 lot of negotiations, agreements and so on which is somewhat difficult. These are some of the suggestions that I wanted to offer while speaking on this Bill. । request the Hon. Minister to accept some of my suggestions true to his tradition and see that this Bill which has come after a long time to consolidate the Motor Vehicles Act is made as perfect as possible. [Translation] DR. G.S. RAJHANS (Jhanjharpur) : Sir, it is, in itself an exhaustive Bill. The clauses incorporated in this Bill are so large In number that one gets totally con- fused while reading it. Repetitions are seen off and on. । tried to read it a number of times and got confused with it. Even then by and large a good Bill has been brought 349 Motor Vehicles Bill forward. Efforts have been made to remove all the discrepencies noticed in the Bill, One thing that I find in the Bill is that it will be implemented by the State Govern- ments. At the stage of its implementation it should be seen that nobody falls victim to ‘the police atrocities or to the atrocities of the transport authorities. You said that anyone, who is 16 years old, can drive a motor cycle without fear. The driver will be granted a licence for this. But the driving rules provide that one should have attained the age of 19 years for having a_ licence for the motor cycle—and 20 years for driving a heavy vehicle. I think that a person becomes eligible for having a driving licence for a heavy vebicle at the age of 18. You should look to this aspect. While going through the Bill I felt time and again that this Bill may become instru- mental to exploit the poor. You can make a survey through out the country. You will find that there are very few owners who drive their own vehicles, Only poor people who come from rural areas and some how or the other learn driving, get employed as the drivers of their cars or trucks. You have made a number of provisions in this Bill. But, Iam afraid, lest the owners of the vehicles should exploit their drivers under the cover of this Bill. It has also been said that people above the age of 40 will have to get their licences renewed. Their licences will be renewed for the next 5 years and every time they will have to produce a medical certificate at the time of renewal. Everybody knows that it is both very easy and difficult to get a medical certificate. If somebody finds some lacunae in the certificate, the driver will lose his job at the age of 40. I, therefore, request you to change it to 35 years instead of 40. When a person above 55 years of age demands a licence, he should be asked to produce a medical certificate. If he has any defect in his eyes, he should be examined. But on the ground there should not be any injustice with him. One should not be harassed or made to suffer for minor defects such as beeing under-weight or having cough. I have seen that the driver pass their days in utmost poverty and resort to driving under yery compelling circumstances. SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SAKA) Motor Vehieles Bill 350 [English MR, CHAIRMAN : How much you pay to your driver ? DR. G.S. RAJHANS : That is not to be disclosed here. [Translation] We come across many such instances in which people own vehicles and do not have their own driving Jicences. They or their children go on joy riding and drive the vehicles carelessly. In the case of any accident, they shift the charge «n to the driver with the statement that the accident took place when the driver was driving the vehicle. The driver accepts the charge, because it involves his job. This type of exploitation takes place on several occasions. If the stipulation of producing medical certificate after 40 years of age is euforced, the owners and private companies will threaten the drivers daily and warn them to work properly otherwise to Jose their jobs. In this way the poor fellow will be ruined, I, therefore, request the Hon, Minister to have a practical approach in this regard. If any such person is having some deffect 10 his eye, he should be asked to under go the eye test. In case of any other defect he should not be removed from service, Several opthalmogical defects are curable. Hence he should be given the facility of treatment. With reference to registration you have said that a car running for more than 12 months in a State will have to be got registered in that every State. In this connec- tion I would like to point out that a number of States are situated quite adjacent to one another and people belonging to one State are required to stay in the adjoing State under the exigencies of work for quite a longer period. For example, a resident of Ranchi stays in the adjoining State of Orissa or West Bengal under. exigencies of work for 14 to 15 months. You can very wel! imagine what difficulties he will bave to face in these States if he is asked to get his car registered there. I, therefore, request you to extend this period to 3 years from ”3 months. Everybody knows, how much difficult it is to get a vehicle registered and 351.0 Motor Vehicles Bill (Dr. 6.5. Rajhans] to have a driving licence of it. So far as it is applicable in the case of the original State transport authority, I support the proposal. You have mentioned a very interesting thing in clause—116 of the Bill. 15,59 hrs {SHRI SHARAD DIGHE - the Chair] The State Government may remove or cause to be removed any sign or advertise- ment which is likely to distract the attention or cOnceatration of the driver. 14.00 hrs. You may have seen that in big cities such as Delhi and Bombay, etc, advertise- ments are put on the buses. May be very few people know the fact that through advertisements, Governmeut or the transport department earns a very large amount of money. Assume that on a bus, there is a picture of a beautiful girl in the advertise- ment and some fifty or hundred persons are looking at it, then the attention of the driver will naturally also be diverted towards it out of curiosity which may cause an acci- dent. I have seen this. Advertisements should be put on the back side of the bus. It should not put on the sides of the buses and the State Governments should be instructed in this regard. Mention has been made about un-manned Ievel-crossing also. Accidents occur due to the faults not only on the part of drivers but on the part of trains and pedestrains also. The Hon. Minister mentioned about the driving schools. The Hon. Minister might be know- ing how the driving schools are being run in all big cities. Persons running driving schools with connivance of police and tauts issue driving licences to the needy persons. A driving licence is issued even in the name of a who is not in India running of a driving school is a very flourishing business which fetches a good amount of money. You have rightly said that a through investi- gation should be made about the instructors and personnels employed in the driving schools, I would rather suggest that this business of private driving school should be totally abolished. There should be only AUGUST 19, i988 Motor Vehicles Bill 352 Government runned driving schools and only bonafide persons should be given driving licences, be it a learner or a permanent licence, It is rightly said that driving of a motor-vehicle is a work of much regponsi- bility. So a wrong person should not be granted licence. It is a very good provision that any person driving vehicle under ine fluence of alcohol or drug will be punished. But it is very difficult to carryout blood examination of such persons on the spot. I know a case in which the guilty person was saved by the Hospital doctors, When he was brought in the hospital by the police for his blood examination as he caused acci- dent under the influence of alcohol. In this connection I do not want to refer the name of Willington Hospital. It can be any hospital, that man was saved, but some one else surfered, So a provision should be made that if a person is found driving vehicle under the influence of alcoho!, he should be arrested then and there on the spot on the basis of evidence, pending out- come of his blood test. In several states there are transport authorities where ram- pant corruption is prevalent. I know about one State where the Chairman of the State Trading Corporation auctioned a bus ata cost of Rs. 60 only. A person known to him might have purchased it and thus he got a property worth lakhs of rupees at a nominal cost of Rs, 60 only, My suggestion is this that the policy of nationalisation should be done away with and all the persons who want to operate buses on the roads under State transport be allowed to do so. Such arrangements should exist not only in Delhi but outside Delhi also. If fifty persons want to operate buses on one particular route, let them allow to do so. In that case there will be stiff competition and only such opetators will survive who will give good service to the public. This is the law of the survival of the fittest. In that case there will not be monopoly of one persons... SHRI RAJESH PILOT: This is in the Bill, DR. G. S. RAJHANS : I know, I have read the Bill. You have liberalised earlier also. But, now, stop this totally. In order to provide better service to the public, maximum number of persons who are willing to operate tourist or passenger buses should be issued permits. 353.0 Motor Vehicles Bill In the end, I would like to submit one thing that you have brought a good com- prehensive Bill and welfare of poor drivers should also be looked into. {English} SHRI A. CHARLES (Trivandrum): I stand to support the Motor Vehicles Bill, 1988. Atthe outset, I may congratulate the Minister for the very comprehensive Bill which has now been introduced. The Act that was in existence from 1939 and the various amendments made thereafter were not sufficient to meet the requirements of the recent times and we know many of the frauds that are committeed in the offices, in the RTO’s office in getting the permits, in granting licences and all that. Sufficient care has been taken to see that those anomaties are removed, and the malpractices are to be removed. So, the necessity of the Bill cannot be overemphasised. I have been listening to the spec ‘ies of the earlier two speakers, One thing that has been said is that this. ta hive been again referred toa Joint Sclect Coamittee. We know that when this was first introduced there were hundreds of amendments even from the side of the Treasury Benches and another hundr- ed from the Opposition. I am glad that the Minister and the Ministry have given due consideration to all these amendments. Bill ought Much of the difficulties have been removed because everything has been com- piled, recast anda very beautiful Bill has now been presented. If we again send this Bill to a Joint Select Committee, then । am afraid this Bill would not see the light of the day in tho next three or four years because it has been our experience, There is assaying. If you do not want to act, you appoint a Committee, but if you want to act, you take a decision. I congratulate the Minister for taking a bold decision. There may be difficulties when we implement the provisions of this. But those difficulties can be taken care of by bringing amendments or whatever is required in future. J am glad that this Bill has been presented now. Salient features are found in this Bill Since it is a very large Bill, it ig very difficult SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SAKA) Motor Vehieles Bill 354 for anyone to go extensively Into the pro- visions of this Bill, There are stricter procedures relating to grant of licences; standards for anti pollution devices; fitness certificate for the private sector; nationalisa- tioa of route; maintenance of roads; road safety anda lot of other things, So, । am Sure that when this Bill becomes a law, much of the difficulties that we experienced in this field would be removed. I would like to draw the attention to one or two Clauses. Fear has been experienced that a free licensing system will be given for giving permits. But if you go through the Bill very carefully, 1am sure that fear has no basis. Sir, nationalisation, I must say, must not be merely for the sake of nationalisation. I represent Trivandrum Constituency in my State. Trivandrum has got a_ totally nationalised route. But in most of the interior districts, there are both private and Government route. Our experience is that when there is a nationalised permit system alone, passengers find it very difficult and they have to stand for hours togetber because Kerala State Road Transport Corporation is the only agency which is plying buses in the city. In some of the other districts, they allow both the private sector and the State Government Road Transport Corporation to operate together. They fix a time limit and there is a rea) competition between the two. Thougb we are all for the nationa- lisation, we would not be able to nationalise all the routes throughout the country at one stretch. We have private sector in a very large area. So, I must say that there should be a real competition between these two, which will enable the ordinary passengers to have more comfortable time io getting the buses in time and other facilities. I would like to draw the attention parti- cularly to Clause 99. । relates to awarding of permit, It says: “‘Where any State Government is of opinion that for the purpose of providing an efficient, adequate, economical and properly co-ordinated road transport service, it is necessary in the public 355.0 Motor Vehicles Bill (Shri A. Charles] interest that road transport services in general or any particular class of such service in relation to any area or route or portion thereof should be run and operated by the State transport under- taking. whether to the exclusion, com- plete or partial, of other persons or otherwise, the State Government may formulate a proposal regarding a scheme......”” This has been questioned by the first speaker. It is said that in the present system, the law is very clear because rules are there. 1 must say that in Kerala, even at present it is the Government which decides which routes are to be nationalised. SoIdo not think the point raised by the first speaker has any basis, There are very clear rules foc the nationalisation of routes. Regarding national highways, more care needs to be taken for their upkeep us most of the accidents take place on the national bighways because of unsafe cond tions of roads. Even though lot of funds are earmarked by the Government of India for the maintenance of national highway:, it is very doubtful whether these funds are being properly utilised. I must say that there should be a Certral agency to see funds that are earmarked are actually spent for the purpose for which they are given Our experience is that when we go through the national highways from one State to another, we find that the conditions of these roads are not good at all. Certain State Govern- ments are not at all keen in spending any money on these highways. So it should be ensured that whatever money is earmarked it should be properly spent for the main- tenance of national highways. । 1८0०९ 1 that more roads be declared as Dational highways. In Keraja there is a request for declaring MC roads as national highways. I know, this is not the time to make such a request. However, it is good if the Government of India consider it. favourably. About the issue of driving licenc>, । congratulate the Minister for giving an exhaustive chapter on that because । krow that many of the accident take place because of lack of proper training. That has been well taken care of, AUGUST 19, 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 356 Noise pollution, fuel pollution and other pollutions are creating problems, The Bill has taken care of tbat also. Iam glad that sufficient care bas been taken to remove the amomalies. I am sure, when the implementation of this Bill starts, most of the difficulties being faced by the people will be removed and the roads will be more safer for the passengers. SHRI AMAL DATTA (Diamond Harbour): After fifty years, this Bill has been brought to make new provisions, the need for which has been felt for quite some time. As the Minister has explained in his introductory speech, circumstances have changed considerably since 1939. The number of motor vebicles on the road has increased from 3 lakhs to about 100 lakhs and the road network has also increased. But what he has not mentioned is that gualitatively there has been a big differcoce not only in the number of vehicles but in the type of vehicles that are using the roads. Previously we had small lorries. When 1°39 Act was passed, the maximum load which a truck could carry was one tonne, but now on paper it cao carry 7.5 tonnes. Buti am told on a very good authority that these trucks which we see on the roads-Tuta trucks-they are really capable of carrying upto 15 tonnes, They, in fact, carry that much load, So, qualita- tively there bas been a difference which has also to be taken note of, which means that the motor vehicles of today, the goods vehicles and the stage carriages all have become much more lethal in character than they were in 1939. Then they were slow, they were lighter and the roads were not so congested. Secondly, the lethal quality has increased many mote folds than will appear from mere numbers. I am afraid that this part has not been taken into account in formulating the provisions of the Bill. Adequate measures have not been brought forward to satisfy the needs of safety on the road, for which various other provisions will be required if safety is to be ensured to the people using the roads, either as pedestrians or 85 passengers in vehicles, and to ensure thet the vehicles themselves do not damage 3 Motor Vehicles Bill property alongside the road, and so on. In this matter I think that a lot of new thinking was oecessary. Unfortunately for all the Committee Reports etc. which have been gone into by the Working Group, they have not really considered the needs that have arisen because of these technical changes which have already taken place and are taking place at a very rapid rate today. This Bill which will be enacted—-I am sure that this Bill when put to vote will be enacted because the ruling party wants ।- will again be continuing for another half a century. If that is kept in mind, then various other provisions could have been brought in, and that is why I will request the Minister to pay need to the amendments which have been tabled and the requests which have been made to take it before a Joint Select Committee of Parliament so that due consideration can be given. I know that it is a time-consuming process but if we could have waited for fifty years—‘the need for a new Bill having been felt at least twenty or thirty years ago—we can wait for another one aod a half, two or three years also so that something comes. In the mean time, it is not as if there is noth'ng at all. The Act is there, and some slight changes which are urgently, necessary might be made. But for the new Bill, I think {it would be worthwhile to wait even for two or tLree years so that all the aspects of the changes which have taken place, technically and otherwise, can be taken into account, including the changes which are envisaged, which have already taken place in other countries and will soon come to this country. So, ( would again request the Hon. Minister to think about it and see, if it is possible, even now to withdraw the Bill and to send it to a Joint Select Committee of the Parlia- ment. । would draw the attention of the Minister to certain aspects only. The B:ll is a very long one and it is not possible, given the time which is allocated to Mem- bers, to go through the major portion of tbe Bill, So, I have to confine myself to certain portions only. Before । do that, another aspect I will emphasise it that the Minister has said that the State Governments have been consulted ७0 far as the Bill is concerned. It is possible that some State Governments might have sug- SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SAKA) Motor Vehicles Bill 348 gested some amendments to the Bill now exis- ting, but I understand, and it is also stated in the Minister’s introductory speech of today, that after the Bill was drafted on the basis of the Working Group’s recommendations-—~ of course, there is a lot of departure from the Working Group’s recommendations also-— there was a meeting convened only once of the Ministers of Transport of State Govern- ments That has not, in my view, given the States an adequate opportunity of present their views, Therefore, I believe that a numbers of States are still feeling aggrioved that they have not been properly consulted in bringing this comprehensive Bill before Parliament. Now, let me pass on the aspect of the safety which is very predominent in my mind and it should have been taken care of by this Bill because it is something quite urgent. Now, what we see today and the Bil! unfor- tunately does not take care of that evil which has crept in. The whole licensing proceduie-licence to drive-has become rather a farce. A man does not know how to drive because there are no proper driving schools. Now, you are bringing some provisions to control the driving schools, but even these are not adequate because there is no way in which a person can teach the other persons to drive unless he is trained so teach. He bas not enough training to teach others. So, there is no such training given as prescribed or thought of prescribing in the provisions which have been brought today. Now, that is it to be gone into. How to ensure that people cap learn to drive properly and what kind of regulation the Government must have on these schools so that there are schools where people can go to learn driving and not just to get licences. In fact, that is exactly what is happening today that people go to the driving school and pay certain amount of fees and they get the licence. As Mr, Rajhans has said, irrespective of whether they are staying in India or not, the licence is given. These have become merely profes- sional agents and in fact the Department has become corrupt and that is why this thing can proliferate. So on the money part, if Rs. 510 is given to the driving school and for getting ४ licence -and they are not teach- ing a person to drive, they are getting a licence-naturally they will take Rs. 200 or, Rs. 300 to the officials concerned to issue 389.0 Motor Vehicles Bill (Shri Ama! Datta) the licence. This is what has 9560 happening Now, if people have some kind of training school, some kind of training they have to Obtain before coming for a test, They have to go to the driving schools. The driving schools have to be properly regulated and controlled by the Government to see that they remain reliable wheo they send some- body or when they bring somebody for a test. It must be properly taken care of by appropriate vigilance on the officials them- selves, I do not know whether the same sort of officials are continuing who have been continuing under the existing Act because they suddealy turn honest because corruption has gone to such a proportion that it is very difficult to eradicate, So, proper Vigilance is very much necessary. There is no provi- sion to see that this kind of vigilance is incorporated in the way the Department is organised or appointed. So, that should be done. Then the danger to people may come from drivers, not merely because they have not been trained, but they have just got the licence by paying a sum of money directly or indirectly to the Inspector issuing the licence, but also he may after getting the licence on Jearning the proper driving, he may not drive properly. What one has to do is to see that traffic regulations are also appropriately followed and they are imple- mented. Now, the implementation machinery for traffic offences is very very weak. First of all, there is no way of catching a person who is violating the traffic rules, not to speak of actually getting bim punished for such violation. The offence are there. But those offences do not allow a Policeman, even if he sees a person violating the traffic rules, to arrest because all these are non-cognisable offences. So, what can be done is not just to issue a notice or a summ)as to ultimately make him to appear or pot an rear before any court, bat the point is whether at all the summons can be issu:d or whether at all the court is to take up the case. As । understand, most of these traffic offences ere nevey actually tried. I hope that the Miaister knows that this is the actual state of affairs, So, to ensure safety on the roids one has to see that the offences are not only created by the Act, but these offences are brought to book and bringing to book his got various gtages—— spotting the offeace and apprehen- AUGUST 19, 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 360 ding the offender, bringing him to court for trial and all these stages. Iam afraid these have not been taken care of in sufficient details in this Act which we should have done having regard to our experience under the existing Act. So, that is one side of the thing. Of Course, there is a provision now that the court may revoke the licence. This should be done in certain cases of offences, parti- cularly of offences regarding dangerous driving and so on. This should be not an optin given to court because th2 court may be sometimes unduly charitable to the offen- der and not to the persons who stand in danger of being killed or hurt grievously by this type of driving. So, what in fact should happen, what should be provided for in the Bill is that in the case of dangerous or reck- less driving or driving under the influence of drinks or driving with excessive weight in case of heavy vehicles or with excessive passengers in case of public service vehicles, there should be a compulsury revocation of licence. If that is not done, then of course there is no appropriate punishment which will in fact safeguard the life and property of other pevple, So, thot should be made compulsory and not optional as to whether the licence is to be cancelled or suspended. The other aspect of it is the machine itself—how to ensure that even if a person knows how to drive, even if he is willing to or trying observe the traffic rules, if the vehicle itself is not fit to be driven on the road and fit for all types of situations which it may have to go tthrough in the road while being driven on the road, there of course again the danger will not be removed from the users of the road. This requires the iitness certificate to be obtained by the venicle. What is provided now and what is being envisaged in this Bill is that this fitness certificate will be brought once a year. Do you think that once a year is sufficient ? Given the number of distances travelled by the heavy vehicles—- a vehicle may ply from Delhi to Bombay and from Bombay to Bangalore and come back to Delhi, some- thing like that, in the course of two weeks only, and in the course of one year it will be making the same trip may be 50 times or a little more of a little less. So, it is neces- sary thit the vehicles having regard to the 361 Motor Vehicles Bill nature of the journeys made by them should be obliged to obtain the fitness certificate much more frequently than once a year. I personally think that at least a quarterly fit- ness certificate is required for the heavy vehicles including the buses which carry so many passengers, 50 many passengers * lives are involved...(Jnterruptions). Now, Iam coming to that, what you have been indica- ting. (Interruptions). Now, the question is fitness certificate can be obtained by paying money. This 15 what Mr, Mushran has been indicating to me. lam going almost iato the root of this evil which should be eradicated. Otherwise, if by paying money anything can be done, then you can do away with the annual fitness certificate also. I am assuming that the fitness certificate will be genuine, after proper test it will be issued and not only in exchange of money. In that case I would say that it is necessary for you to see that proper vigi- lance is excercised on the people who give the fitness certificate. And thst also should be put in the Act itself. It is not only that the fitness certificate is given but the authori- ties concerned must see and check that these fitness certificates are given in a proper way and not by graft. The question has arisen and Shri Madhav Reddi has rightly said that it will not be proper that the fitness certificate to be obtained from private gara- ges. । agree with him. But J would insist that private garages be properly equipped and private garages may give a certificate, and on the basis of that certificate, the vehicle will be tested. Otherwise, the vehicle will not be tested at all and tten the fitness certificate will be given by Government inspector only and the Government inspector must also have access to proper testing machinery. At the moment, nothing has happened in these 50 years, from 1939 to 1988, where have we proceeded with regard to the motor vehicles, in regard to proper maintenance and repair 2 Can you obtain even half a dozen garages in a place hike Delhi which are equipped with proper testing equipment. You should not find it. There may he one or two garages in the State Transport Corporation and one or two 10 the private sector, etc. Otherwise, they have nothing at all. Even for a brake test what happens? If the brake in my car is not working and if 1 go to the mechanic, he will SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SAKA) Motor Vehicles Bill 362 drive it in the crowded street and see whether it works or not. If it does not work, there will be nn accident. This is position because nobody is insisting on safety. This is the opportunity where Parliament could have insisted that first of all the certificates have to be obtained. At present you have to obtain the certificate from the garage, But that garage will have to be properly equip- ped. Otherwise this certificate will be of no use. That kind of control 1 want the Gover- oment to exercise because this is much more important perhaps than even the Factories Act. In the Factories Act, you are trying to save from danger the workers who are working in the factory with the same machi- nery day in any day out. Whereas here you are trying to save the lives of the users of road who are not faced with the danger, every time except whenever they are on the roed. They are not habituated to it. They cannot anticipate what kind of danger they may have to face. Therefore, it is much mere important, You could understand 15 tonnes or 20 tonnes of truck rushing around the street with great speed and what kind of danger it poses to the people. Unfortunately I see from the whole thing, the way the Bill has been framed, the people who have done this job, have no imagination as to the type of changes which have taken place and the type of dangers that people today face. Therefore, 1 will request you to kindly think about my suggestion that there should be two sets of tests, with proper equipment and the test should be much more frequent. So far as the Claims Tribunals are con- cerned, the Claims Tribunals were originally set up for the purpose of disposing of claims in relation to accidents arising out of the motor vehicles in a very short period of time, because the court procedure was cum- bersome, But even now what happens is, 000६ a person goes to the Tribunal, he also does not get remedy for 4 or 5 years. There are two or three reasons. One is the Tribu- nal follows the same procedure practically as the court does Secondly, the police who are supposed to bring the evidenee before the tribunal at least of the accident and of the death, if death bas occurred, do not cooperate. Thirdly the insurance companies who are ultimately to pay the money try to drag the case as long as possible. It is a settled policy to do so to tire the claimant 663 Motor Vehicles Bill (Shri Amal Datta} out. All these things should be taken care of through the Motor Vehicles Act by giving time limit whithin which, if these people do not cooperate, the award has to be given iं favour of the claimant. In that case only, these people will cooperate with the Tribunal to sec that the case is quickly disposed of. The Law Commission has also given a report that the jurisdiction of the Claims Tribunal should be such that a victim of an accident or the kith and kin if he has died, should be able to bring the case in the Tribunal having jurisdiction where they are residing and not only where the accident has taken place or the defendant resides which is the principle today, as it will be very difficult for a person permanently dis- abled and for the widow and sminor children ofa person who has died, to go to a place of accident or where the defendant resides, to bring a case in the Tribunal. It is not possible for them to go This is a Law Commission report. Kindly see whether you can incorporate that. SHRI SRIBALLAV PANIGRAHI (Deogarh) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the Motor Vehicles Bill, 1988. At the outset, I congratulate the Government. particularly the Hon. Minister in charge of Surface Transport, for the strenuous efforts he has put in to bring this comprehensive Bill before Parliment. As you know, the Act that we have at present dates back to 1939. About half a century, 50 years time, has elapsed in the meanwhile and in between we have also achieved our independence in 1347 and obviously after independence, economic development activities have becn stepped up aod things have changed miraculously. There bas been a sea change in different fields aad obviously much water has flown in the river Ganga since then and althougb this Act has been amended as many as 24 times so far, still much is left for this persent Act to be reievant to the modern times, There- fore, it was good of the Government to come to Parliament with this comprebensive legislation. There was also a demand from different quarters for a comprehensive Bill and, therefore, । wholeheartedly support this Bill. AUGUST 19, 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 364 As has been pointed out earlier, it is a very long Bill with a large number of provi- sions and one cannot do justice to all these provisions. There has been a demand from the Opposition for referring it to the Joint Select Committee and, I think it has been rightly rejected by the Hon. Minister. Some Hon’ble Members have also observed earlier that any reference to a Committee would further delay the matter and secondly, different provisions have been scrutinised in detail by different competent Bodies dealing with road transport like the National Police Commission and the Road Council. Different Bodies have discussed this and, as we know, it is the State Governments who are the implementing agencies for this sort of Act. They have also been consulted. So, that way, this Bill cannot be referred to a Joint Committee because of the urgency and time factor involved. Further, I would like to say that when the provisions have been scrutinised by different bodies and when the State Governments have duly been consulted, there is no necessity for referring this Bill to a Joint Commiitee...(Jnterrup- tions) What is not correct ? Let me tell you that the State Governments have been consulted. (/nterruptions) MR. CHAIRMAN : Interruptions will not go on record. Mr. Panigrahi, you please continue. (nterruptions)* SHRI SRIBALLAYV PANIGRAHI : Sir, now I don’t like to go into the salieat features of this Bill because they have been dealt with by the Hon. Member who spoke, previously. Since there is paucity of time, Ido not want to repeat those things. But, what is our problem io the field of road transport ? Unfortunately, Iodia has been a country where the road accident rate is very high. It has got to be brought down. I think 60 per cent of the road accidents in India is due to the carelessness, negligence and recklessness on the part of the drivers. This is one thing The second point is that the road condition in different areas is not *Not recorded, 365 Motar Vehicles Bill very good, That is also a factor which contributes to this. Sir, in the field of road transport, what we have come across is that there is rampant corruption in different transport offices at the time of issues of permits to motor vehicles, at the time of issue of driving licence to the drivers and there are so many such things. It is common knowledge that a large number of commercial vehicles and also buses ply on the roads without any valid permit, without paying taxes to the Government, they manage to run_ the services, With the fantastic growth in our population, there is heavy pressure on different fields including the field of trans- port. The result is that all the buses are over-loaded and crowded. I am sure, after the Bill is passed, if the provisions are implemented properly, there will be specta- cular improvement in the situation. But again the implementation part is very important, In many areas, we are not in dearth of good pieces of legislation. But what is required is proper implementation and the necessary will power on the part of the implementing machinery to implement them, with the spirit that is underlying such legislations. Sir, I would like to ssy here that some new definitions are added. Technology is changing Road conditions are changing and there is also increase in vehicular traffic. The vehicular traffic, that is, the number of motor vehicles in 1939 was about 3 Jakhs. But, yesterday, the Hon. Minister was telling that it has now reacbed beyond the one crore mark, About driving licence, I would like to Say onething more. In many cases, the drivers are plying the vchicles even after mid-night. Most of the accidents take place in between 12 O’ clock of the mid-night and 4 AM. in the early morning. Therefore, it may kindly be examined whether the heavy vebicles etc. plying on the roads after mid-nizht can be forbidden and or restricted. At some places, on the side of the highways, we come across country liquor shops. For Heaven’s sake, please see that they are shifted to distant places. If they can be completely removed, it is well and good. Nothiog like that if there could be a com- SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SAKA) Motor Vehicles Bill 366 plete ban on opening of liquor shops. At least they should not be located at short or approachable distance from the national highways or the main roads. As I have said, the procedure has been simplified in this Bill. Also grant of permit has been tiberalised. It is very good. By this, corrup.ion, I believe, would be mini- mised. I again-say that it wil! not be eliminated completely; that is a tr mendous task, Looking to the proportion that corruption has reached, nobody can boast of doing away with it completely, but it can be minimised. Anybody can now put in an application; anybody who intends to come to the transport arena can now do so. There is no question of its being rejected. Two types of vehicles have been integrated into one. Grant of Stage Carriage permits is proposed to be liberalised so as to make all eligible applicants enter the field of transport. This is a very good provision. Coming to All India Permit, I would draw the attention of the Hon Minister to one thing. I could not understand why the limit or ceiling on permits, both internally, inside the State, as well as for national permit, has been increased in the case of individuals and companies. When a large number of educated unemployed youths are there and banks are ready to finance such projects, naturally there shoud not be concentratian like this that a single individual can possess upto five and a company upto 10 permits. It can be examined whether it could be reduced. The unemployment problem is growing out of proportion and that way, many more persons could be accommodated or absorbed bank finance. The insurance provision is there, The Supreme Court’s observations in respect of accideot claims have also been accommo- 08160, There are many good things, many welcome measures. Actually we have been looking forward to such a comprebensive Bill since long, with the procedure simplified and all that. At the same time, as I said, it is the State Government which should be impréssed upon to implement it properly. Traffic consciousness has got to be created. Traffic monitoring system should be effective. Road Safety Weeks should not be observed just as 8 matter of routine or as a ritual, but actually the road safety instructions, Toad signals, etc., should te follcwed The awareness should be created, 367 Motor Vehicles Bill [Shri Sriballav Panigrahi} ‘On the national highways, and also on many State highways, at so many places barriers are there. If there is a school or if there are some important places, then the barriers should be there. But at the same time when so many barriers, so many gates, are there, they are an impediment for speedy movement, etc., on highways, and such movements on highways should not be restricted because of time factor. Also the road conditions at many places need improvement. Bridges are now being built. There is - new trend. When a bridge is built on a national highway, there is a ceiling on expenditure and wheo the expenditure is above a certain amount, then that has to be realised by way of toll tax. There are toll gates fixed. But in somc places, within a distance of 59 to 63 kms., there are more than one toll point. That should be looked into. Regarding by-pass, the other day I gave a reference to Deogarh town in my constituency. The National Highway Number 6 connecting Calcutta with Bombay just passes through the heart of the town. It is not only Deogarh town alone but in Many towns there are cases of accidents particularly killing children. Therefore, construction of by-pass also should be emphasised and given priority. With all these things, I would support the Bill whole-heartedly. But, at the same time, there should be good understanding between the Centre and the States. It is not that we should have such good provision for issue of lisence to the drivers and permits to the vehicle owners, But at the same time, there should be good number of recognised Griving schools and also good workshops for proper training and testing. Therefore, recognised workshops and training schools should be located rationally all over the country in required numbers Otherwise, the Bill, although with a very laudable purpose, will not be able to serve the purpose, and there should be a drive to create an effective awareness. SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS (Maveli- kara) : Sir. This is an old law and it has AUGUST 19. 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 368 to be changed. Several attempts were also made to change it. And also, I bad the occasion to deal with this lew for the past 25 years as a practising lawyer. I know some of the implications of it. I would like to urge the Minister that, in fact, the pro- visions regarding permits by which the present attempt a'so made to amend the law may have a _ very drastic consequences. And also it may g> against the dictum laid down by various important decisions of the Supreme Court. 1 can appreciate the eagerness of the Minister to see that things are more libera- lised. But in the name of liberalisation, if things go as free and for all, then the motor vehicles and permits come in the hands of our officers to decide it in the light of the guidelines prescribed today in the present amendment how much is the authority or the officer will get out of these things. Whereas I can understand that there are so many lacunae in the existing laws. One is, the RTO’s office or the Motor Vehicles Department’ is now taken as an example for the nationalised corruption from one end to the other end of the nation. That is true. Every public man is very much con- cerned about it. But in spite of that corruption is there very much. I do remember ‘in my State people staged a walk out saying than this is a right of the permit to given as a bribe to the officers and concerned people. It came as a naxalite movement in my State and making people aware of how much corruption is taking place. It is true that corruption has to be avoided. But for that purpose, if you are leaving these things entirely at the responsibility of the Regional Transport Officer or the authorities taking away quasi-judicial power by giving vertain things in the hands of them in the nature of guideline, then how much it will affect is the question which we have to go into. Also, in that respect, I would like to point out one thing. A person can get a permit if he has got a vehicle. Now under Section 47(1) of the present Act which says that it is of paramount importance if that is of public interest. Io all the theories about public interest, right from the period of Britishers, the Privy Council onwards has given interpretation to this Motor Vehicles law. They have said that the paramount consideration is the public interest, It is 369 Motor Vehicles Bill not a person’s right to hold a permit. It is pot a business. It is not a profession. But it is a thing which is done by an operator in the interest of the travelling public. Therefore, restrictions are there. Therefore, the Supreme Court 10 many cases has said this. I do remember a case of 1975 of the Supreme Court at pase 819. 1976.0 Supreme Court Page 2.02—all these cases are reported in the AJR. They say, if there is a paity which is pot represented before the quasi judicial authority, then the Court will have to pay attention to that and the public interest is to be given the maximum priority in granting the permit. 15 hrs, In this present Bill, instead of Sections 47 to 58 of the existing law by which the permits are issued, new sections 69 to 78 in Chapter 4 are provided. Here certain guidelincs are given, that the Government will give certain adm...istrative guidelines aud the authorities concerned will decide on that What is the guideline about ? The first is the ownership of a vehicle and the second about the tength of the route. In the Jength of the route it is said that one single man can get a permit for 50 Kms. and another company can get upto 10 permits. Like that soms restrictions are made. In the matter of issuing the permit this has been developed as one of the important case Jaws. The Supreme Court through their number of detvisions have made a case law to this effect as to how this has to be controlled, Now more than a statutory provision the case law is the thing which is governed in the Motor Vehicles Act. I feel proper attention has uot been pald to the various decisions of the Supreme Court in the haste to see that corruption is removed and things are liberalised, [ fear that in the practical experience this liberalisation will go aga‘nst the public interest. There is a case Jaw । make in the present comprehensive law. There will be a case of public interest and the personal entitle- ment of a permit. That practice will come in. You will have to check that in the control of vehicles. 1 would suggest that a serious study has to be made, There can SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SAKA) Motor Vehicles Bill ” be two opinions. Perhaps the Minister is of the cpinion that let us implement it, see it and then correct it. There can be another opinion that it may be referred to a Select Committee, let evidence be taken and then it should be brought. But 1 would like to point out that if the chapter on issuance of permits as at present envisaged under section 7 is implemented, it will create a lot of difficulties, A permit has to be given to a single owner, Suppose a bus bas to be run by a conductor, a driver and a cleaner. Ail the three want to own a bus. How are you going to give priority for them ? I mean, under self-employment scheme some people want to find ajob, bave you given any provision for that 7 A cooperative society is registered and in the name of that cooperative society suppose a few employees join together, make money, take loan and purchase a vehicle, have you given any preference for them ? Something like that which are very important things are there., No statutory preference is there. Instead of that, । feel more freedom is given to the officers con- cerned to deal with this subject. Finally, when you try to eliminate corruption, corruption will consolidate at the officers level. That is my fear with regard to the permit matter, All steps taken to eradicate corruption in this Bill wil! have our whole- sarted support. | There is a dog in the manager policy with regard to nationalisation. Chapter 4(A) of the present Act says that there is - nationalisation scheme. When a scheme is notified, no permit can be issued on that route. Because of this provision the public is suffering. If the Maharashtra Government notifies a particular route for a public undertaking, no new bus service will come in that route and the public is suffering. Therefore you have provided a provision here. Yesterday when you were making your introductory speech, you mentioned that for the time being if the notification is there aod if they are not in a position to imple- ment it, then automatically the permit will . be cancelled, 371 Motor Vehicles Bill SHRI RAJESH PILOT: Mr, Chairman Sir, I just want to clarify some doubts. I think the Hon. Member has not read the provisions provided in this Bill. As far as the nationalisation is concerned, । had clarified yesterday that suppose a route from A to B is at the moment being operated by 20 private operators. The moment the State Government or the Public State Transport Undertaking wants to nationalise that route because they feel that it is in the interest of the public and they give notice, after the notice has been given, all the private opera- tors come running to the authorities saying that please don’t nationalise it. Sono nationalisation takes place. Whenever they feel like it they withdraw it. Now what we say is that within one year you nationalise that route and also when you are nationalis- ing the system which is prevailing should continue acd within one year if you do not nationalise then your notification becomes and void. This will help not to encou- age the wrong thing in the system. That is the idea. SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: Still I would like to point out that for twenty years the notifications were published and they were not implemented. There is what is called schedule ‘A’, schedule ‘B’, etc. and finally people were suffering. Then the advocates will have to make a case it is not Overlapping. The cases went upto Supreme Court and in a number of cases the Supreme Court said that two overlapping points should not be there. You can cross or intersect. TO overcome that difficulty my suggestion is that proper buses should be available for the people. There is another thing also. Being an MLA or some local influential man his first intrerest is to see that a bus is taken to his constituency whether there is a necessity or not. Then he will say that this foute should be nationalised. Now this process should be avoided, This happening every- day, Finally if you look at the history of the transport undertakings in this country you will find most of them are incurring heavy losses. Even the other day you yourself told that DTC is running into heavy losses, On the other hand when a private operator gets AUGUST 19, 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 3 a licence he makes money. He purchases one bus, two buse and then three buses. So somewhere the restriction has to be imposed and the streamlining to be done. I would like to say a few words about permit matters. Steps should be taken to streamline these things. The directions of the Supreme Court ure there. While imple- menting yon should see no contradictions creep in. There should not be anything contradictory. Stringent steps have to be taken in respect of driving licences. The provisions with regard to claims tribunals, etc. is good. At present there is cumbersome procedure which needs to be rationalised and necessary facilities given to the public to take advantage of the situation. At the same time I would like to point out that the road con- ditions are bad. There are notifications for limiting the permits and unhealthy competi- tion takes place. Another important thing is inter-connecting services, Naturally there are decisions to that effect. When a permit is given one of the criteria is to see whether he has got coordinated bus service. The coordinated bus service is one of the factors but when you restrict it to a certain extent how the coordination function can be there. There are bus operators who have developed their bus service in different tangents and developed into a big concern. How that will be affected is a matter which will have to be investigated in the light of the provi- sions of this Act. Suppose coordinated transport system is available for the public will it be ruined. That is my fear because you are limiting the permits to five, ten, etc. Beyond ten permits nobody could get. Will it affect the existing system 2 It is a question which has to be gone into. Since you are ringing the bell in conclu- sion I would like to say that on the whole the review of the entire matter and a new law is a must and it has to be there. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE (Panskura) : Mr, Chairman, unfortunately I was delayed a little and 1 bave not been able to move my amendments myself tut substan- tially it does not matter because Shri C. Madhav Reddi and Shri Soz have moved their amendments which I support. Now the question is that lot has been said abou: the difference between the earlier Bill and 33 Motor Vehieles Bill this Bill. Asi understand there are not very substantial differences but if there is a difference then it is in these terms. I would like to mention that in sub-pata (6) of para 3 of the Statement of Objects and Reasons in the Motor Vebicles Bill, 1987, it is stated : ‘Jaying down clear parameters where the private and public sector can co-exist and develop in road transport field.” But io the present Bill, the same para has been totally substituted as under : *(e) simplification of procedure and policy liberalisation for private sector operations in the road trans- port field. Earlier, there was at least some reference for co-existence of public sector and private sector in the transport field. Now, even that pretension has been given up. It has been clearly stated that it is only for simplification of procedure and policy liberalisation for private sector operators in the transport field. The public sector does not even feature there. This is in keeping with the present Government’s policy of privatisation tather than laying stress on the public sector. As the time is short at my disposal, I would hurriedly like to point out why some of the aspects should be referred to the select committee. As this is a long Bill and the time is limited, I would like to Jay stress On two or three points. Firstly, this Bill does not do anything for increasing the benefits for ordinary users, who are not necessarily the owners of the vehicles. It gives advant- age to private operators at the cost of state exchequer. I am saying this because there is a change in definitions which have been given for different types of vehicles. As 8 consequence of this change, they will pay less for registration fee and fitness certificate. For example, for 4000 kg of laden weight, earlier, one used to pay Rs. 50. Now, for 6,000 kg, the same fity rupees will have to be paid. I am sure, this benefit will not be passed on to the users who will be using the vehicles for transporting their goods. There Will be a loss to the exchequer. SRAVANA 28, 1910 (SAKA) Motor Vehicles Bill 44 SHRI RAJESH PILOT : It will be other way round. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE : Not the other way round. This -is the pra- ctice. They will not pass on these benefits tO the users. Crores of rupees will go out. SHRI RAJESH PILOT: You fave not read the whole Bill, Madam. If you see, up to 4,000 kg , no permit was required earlier. We have allowed up to 6,000 kg. We have put a permit at 3,000 kg. So, more revenue will go to the exchequer. It is other way round. SHRIMATI GEBTA MUKHERJEE: You come to next slab. Asa whole, ali the slabs decrease. It will actually cost the exchequer crores of rupees. There is no doubt about that. Due to relaxation in weight in different segments, Government revenue would be lost. But that will not pass On to the users. This is the first thing. Secondly, as I said, it tends towards privatisation which is clearly written in the objective. It is also in the present provision of giving the private garages the right for fitness certificate. Then it is said that the Goverpment inspectors are corrupt and so on and so forth. Who has ever said that these private gurages have got all the virtues 7 That has never happened. Then you have said ‘subject to the State Governments’. What tight basthe State Government got? Are these garages according tu the specifications of the Central Government? If once they are according to the specifications of the Central Government, the State Government does refuse to give them permission to issue the fitness certificate. They will immediately go to the court and get it washed. Therefore, in reality the State Governments are not left with the power of option of not giving the private garages the right to issue the fitness certificates, ‘There again, the question arises as to why have you given this? You your- self said in your statement once that driving and training will be better in the bands of the Government. But in the case of inspec- tion of transport vehicles, the power should be given to the private garages. Thisis your Ownrstatement at a particular time. If train- ing is to be given by the Government, the 495.0 Motor Vehicles Bill {Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee} Government mnst guarantee that the fitness certificate is alright. If you want to give employment benefit to certain persons. let them repair the garages. Why the fitness certificate has to be given to them ? Is it that this fitness certificate gives them employment ? Repairs of garages will give them employ- ment. Fitness certificate is a questioa of public safety. It should be in the hands of the Central Government and the State Government should have the right to exercise it. Your Bill bas rightly denied that. You have claimed that you have instruc- ted the State Government. So far as my knowledge goes, Clause 56 giving the fitness certificate authority to private garages has beea objected by the Governments of Orissa, Maharashtra, West Bengal, Andhra Pradesh, Goa, Karnataka, Kerala, Pondicherry and Tamil Nadu The political colours of the States are not uniform. Obviously, the State Governments of different parties felt that this should not be given to the private gara- ges. They are still of the same opinion but you have given that Therefore, your object is being subjected to different phrases and is not an empty thing. It ७ there in the Bill. It cannot be denied. Public sufety is endangered and the exchequer is robbed. Thirdly, your concern for the public safety is also a little difficult for me to understand. A new provisron that you have made is that if one takes the driving licence then one can renew it after twenty years. So far, three years was the time limit. Within twenty years, my hands or legs may be broken or J may be in shambles but my licence will be valued. What will happen to the public sefety with regard to those things ? SHRI RAJESH PILOT ; It is a personal vehicle driving licence. If i am driving my personal vehicle I must know whether I am fit or not. it is personal vebicle driving licence, not commercial licence, SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA : (Basirhat) Why should it be known after a gap of twenty years ? SHRI RAJESH PILOT : We have given permission for - personal vehicle Jicence up to the age of 40 years or for 20 years. This AUGUST 19, 1988 Motor Vehicles Bill 376 is because I kaow myself when ह am driving my vehicle, whether I am fit or not, or whether I may fall into a ditch. If । am not fesponsible enough to know whether I am fit to drive my personal vehicle or not, that is a different thing. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE : Pilots may be quite conscientious, I am glad, but if all the drivers in our country are half as conscientious as the pilots, then we could have avoided all the accidents. In fact, people do not want to go in for taking driving licences and on the top of it you are making it for twenty years, 1 do not think every private owner of the car will be as conscientious as you are. This should not have been done in the interest of public safety, You have been piloting in the air and you seem to have a sympathy for the pilots on the road. But I must tell you that it is not in the interest of public safety. This is such a big Bill and there are very many provisions, some of which have already been commented upon by my friends. I do not have much time, The factors that I have mentioned would signify that our notice of amendment for referring this Bill to a Joint Committee of the two House is the correct course despite all youc claims‘and many of the certificates which you have won from your side. I think, you should think over it seriously/ and agree to our amendment. Even if that takes a little time, that will improve matters, You yourself had to bring two Bills within one year. That Itself shows that it is a matter for consideration by Select Com- mittee. From all these considerations, I isquest you to reconsider the situation and refer it to a Joint Select Committee, so that all these aspects and many other aspects that have been raised can be gone into properly. What is all this mad drive for privatisa- tion and losing revenue, Ido not under- stand. । hope you will reconsider it, SHRI ।. TOMBI SINGH (Inner Mani- pur) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, J rise to support this Bill. Undoubtedly, it is a very com- prehensive Biil with so many provisions and ” Motor Vehicles Bill one can make reference to only a few of the provisions. One of the portions in the statement of Objects and Reasons is very attractive to some of us—‘‘the greater flow of passenger and freight with the least impediments so that islands of isolation are not created...” As the Hon, Minister knows, 1 belong to one of the islands of isolatiun in Norjbh-Easst. In the North-East region beginning with Tri- pura, Mizoram, Manipur, Meghalaya, Naga- land, Arunachal, and we can take Sikkim also, there are no railway faciliues, only vehicular traffic or roadway facility is there. That is the only facility that we get for passengers and freight, The importance of this Bill cannot, therefore, be exaggerated as far as that region is concerned, Sir, one of the provisions related permits for the buses to move State to State. Sir, | am not a lawyer myself. । have not been able to go through all the provisions skilfully. lo this context, I would hike to say that people in that region are scared of moving by train, they are not used to moving by the train. So, during the pilgrimage season, particularly in my State of Manipur, the majority Hindu population move out 10 buses and reach to the Hindu piigrim places of the country. It is very difficult for these buses to move between the State passing the interstate borders because the border police and other, who are in chatge of the vehicles harass them. 1 am speaking of only of those cases which I know. But the situation may be same with other pilgrim or tourist buses coming from the Tamil Nadu and other Southern States from where the pilgrim buses go to all over the country, like Haridwar, Rishikesh and Banaras. Now, most of the drivers, conductors aod thuse who are in charge of the vchicles, are not very educated people. Here a mention has been made of giving licences to the conductors. This itself may or may not help because Iam very doubtful about the utility of the licences being issused to the conductors, But, as the Government said, this Bill has been based on the recommenda- tions, réports and other findings from various studies at different levels, 1 don’t challenge and dispute this provision. SRAVANA 28, 1910.0 (SAKA) Motor Vehteles Bill ” 15,27 hrs. [SHRI ।. VENKATA RATNAM ia the Chatr} But what is important is that due respect should be paid to such permits and issued by a State Transport Authority to cover a country side route. Such permits should be foolproof permit which does not give any roomto the police on the interstate borders to harass such innocent drivers, conductors and passengers who are mostly not businessmen but mainly pilgrims. So, this provision has to be made. This can be covered only by having a national permit which will have a building impact on the State Transport Authorities. I think, this aspect has been taken care of in the Bill. Then there is the provision of restric- ticn of the hour of working for the drivers. It says that the driver has to take 5 hrs. duty at a stretch and then half-en-hour rest before he takes up the driving work again. So, accordirg to this provision the total working hours for one week are 48 hrs. I thiok, this may create some problem to the Transport Authority. As the saying goes, the taste of pudding is in its eating, though these provisions seem to be very useful and good provisions, how useful they would be will be known only when we will reach at the implementation stage. Who is going to check these things and how efficienty and effectively they can be implemented. Sir, when we talk about the small-small details like the limited hours for the drivers and so many other things, in the civil aviation flights we see that the pilots, the hostesses and stewards who are on duty have been given certain specific flying bours beyond which they don’t remain on duty and other persons take over from them. Now, I think that this provision only indicates that.due attention has been given to the safety aspect of both the passengers and the vehicles by introducing _ strict number of driving or duty hours... MR. CHAIRMAN : Are you going to conclude or do you want to continue 7 33 ~=-Resl. re : Centre-State Relations—Contd. SHRI N. TOMBI SINGH: Kindly allow me to contioue Sir. MR. CHAIRMAN : All right. You may continue when we next take up this Bill, 15,30 hrs. RESOLUTION RE : CENTRE-STATE RELATIONS—Conrd. (English) MR. CHAIRMAN : we may now take up further discussion on the following Resolution moved by Shri H.M. Patel on the 18th March 1988 :- “This House expresses its deep concern over the present Centre-State relations and demands their carly restructuring so that federalism under- lying our Constitution is made more meaningful.” । Dr, Manoj Pande to continue his speech. He is not present in the House. Shri Jagatrakshakan may speak please. [Translation] कर, S. JAGATHRAKSHAKAN (Chingleput) : Hon, Chairman, Sir, I support the resolution on Centre-State rela- tions moved by the Hon. member Shri H.M. Patel. Sir, federalism is the hallmark of our Constitution. Our Constitution says that there shall be a Union of States. But only when one particular language or culture is imposed upon one set of people, they develop secessionist tendencies. Therefore, imposing unwanted things on people, this very Government sows the seeds of seces- sionism in the minds of people. Sir, ‘nation’ and ‘Nationalism’ are age- old ideas. The metamorphosis of these would continue for ages to come. It was —''rranslation of speech originally delié vered in Tamil. AUGUST 19, 1988 Resl. re: Centre-State 380 Relations—Contd. Mazzini in Italy who first gave ‘nationalism’ a distinct political delineation. In those days nationalism meant loyalty to the ru ler. Liboral ideas later crept in and ‘nationalism’ blossomed into a wider concept of ‘nation state’ in Europe in the 19th century sod in Asia in the present century. The federalism and the golden principle of maintaining ‘unity in diversity’ came to India very recently in the middle of this century. Ay. Sir, as far as Tamilians are concerned, they feel they are Tamilians first and Indians next. The broader feeling of being Indian, as it is of nascent origin, cannot shake off the pride of every Tamilian that he is a Tamilian first as it is ingrained in him since ages immemorial. The sprit of being a Tamilian is blended in his blood and fiesh that the recent nationalist idea of being Indian cannot either alienate or take pre- cedence to the former feeling of being a Tamilian. Sir, only when the Government tries to tame the Tamilians to sacrifice this in born spirit and pride of feeling that they are Tamilians first, we detest such moves and speak in secessionist topes. When the Constitution was framed, it was framed to be-a federal Constitution. Our Constitutional idealogies are based on those of the Constitutions of Canada, Australia and such other countries. Fede- ralism is working very well and is being preserved in those countries. We have restructured the Constitution by amending it 59 times so far, yet we could not get at its spirit and make it shine. Without the concept of federalism our Constitution would be merely a code of alphabets arranged in readable syallables. Article 356 isa spurious provision in the Constitution, There is no such parallel provision in any of the federal Constitution in the world. It is there only in oor Consti- tution. This provision is the Government’s trump card. They will misuse the same provision to keep an unpopular Government on saddle as they did in Meghalaya and misuse it again to deny an opportunity to forming a majority Government in Nagaland. This is an anti-democratic provision. This provision is there to serve as an handle for the Central Government to murder demo- cracy. This is not there in the Constitution